February 29, 2012

Gates and Rockefeller Cafeterias Reject Monsanto GE Foods!











(02/29/12) Monsanto employees are on the backs of their heels this month attempting to stave off negative press arising from a recirculation of the 1999 story of how Monsanto genetically modified foods were banned from their very own factory cafeteria in Britain (a pharmaceuticals factory in High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire England since closed down due to protests). The original story provides referenced quotes with named sources but the Monsanto blog says the story "wasn't true". No explanation is offered by Monsanto regarding sourced quotes, such as this one: "In a notice in the canteen, Sutcliffe Catering, owned by the Granada Group, said it had taken the decision "to remove, as far as practicable, GM soya and maize from all food products served in our restaurant. We have taken the above steps to ensure that you, the customer, can feel confident in the food we serve."[1] When you consider the truth of what people eat at Monsanto, the Gates Foundation and Rockefeller University cafeterias, along with the activities of their founders, the denial antics are recognized to be nothing more than a thinly veiled hypocrisy,which points to much more serious underlying issues.

In their blog post dated February 10, 2012, Monsanto's anonymous blog author, Monsantoco describes Monsantos's present cafeteria logic. First, it's noted, "All foods can be found in Monsanto cafeterias – conventional and organic. None of it is singled out as conventional or organic." The author explains that there was a recall issue regarding spinach, "And for the record, the spinach in question in both cases was – organic."[2] So, to summarize, organic foods do actually now make up a large portion of the Monsanto cafeteria food, but as long as they don't actually tell that specifically to the clients, then the supposed 'food anonymity' implies that Monsanto does not have a double standard. In this case, however, the introduction of organic food is illogical. If customers are not supposed exercise 'food discrimination' and choose between organic and GM foods, then why introduce organic food at all, if it is truly the 'substantial equivalent' of the Monsanto garbage that they are trying to force on the rest of us? The hypocrisy is heightened the more you learn about the friends of Monsanto in high places, what they eat and what they promote.
 
Bill Gates outlined his planned "digital revolution" of the world's food supply in Rome, Italy on February 23, 2012. He was grilled by reporters regarding his heavy promotion of genetically modified foods, to whom he retorted, “You should go out and talk to people growing rice and say do they mind that it was created in a laboratory when their child has enough to eat?”[3] This seems to be a false dichotomy: 'Eat poisonous genetically modified food or die of starvation.' The third option, food freedom and the choice to eat natural food, will unfortunately not be an option for the masses if Bill Gates and friends have their way. The Gates Foundation website states in bold letters, "ALL LIVES HAVE EQUAL VALUE". But if this were true in their eyes, then why is the cafeteria where the Gates Fund people eat completely void of GE foods while they propose that others don't need a choice? This all goes to show that some people are considered more "EQUAL" than others in Bill's world. Or, in the language of Michael Taylor and the evidently corrupt US FDA, some are more "substantially equivalent" than others.[4] In the US, there is no GE labeling of produce, no choice, just as the Monsanto execs have desired all along.
 
Food hypocrisy is easy to detect because eating is something we do frequently and often publicly. A comment was posted February 22, 2012 regarding an application for a deputy director position at the Gates Foundation headquarters in Seattle. In the context of a three week interview process, it was noted, "They have a great cafe in a beautiful atrium. There is a coffee bar and a great selection of food. All food is organic. However it's not particularly cheap."[5] Did you catch that remark? This person interested in an elite position at the Gates Foundation became privy to the fact that all the food the Gates Fundies generally eat is completely organic. If Bill Gates enters their local cafeteria with the munchies, he apparently has no choice - Gates eats organic. Like Monsanto, they likely feel the need not to loudly publicize their subtle 'food discrimination' because they heavily promote GMO foods around the world. But the interviewer posted the truth on the Internet and a webpage copy has been made.


What about Bill's good friend David Rockefeller? In 2002, the Rockefellers funded a nonprofit organic farm and education center at a converted family estate designed to serve an organic restaurant in NYC. David Rockefeller offered, ''If the restaurant is as good as I hope it will be, it would be quite a great temptation to go there often -- even though we have quite a good cook at home.''[6] So, I guess that implies his family supports organic foods close to home. However, in 2006, the Rockefellers began heavily promoting harmful genetically engineered agriculture for other people's use. The Rockefeller Foundation and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation announced a joint $150 million Alliance for a Green Revolution in Africa (AGRA), which adulterated Africa's natural cassava, a food staple there, with GE cassava.[7]  This promotion of GE crops and pesticides also managed to produce a by product of super weeds. And in  2008, a Monsanto GE corn was introduced to Africa as "The Water Efficient Maize for Africa" (WEMA) program, supported by hefty donations from Bill Gates and Warren Buffet.

Though helping to promote hazardous GE crops abroad, wealthy 'philanthropists' seem to be a bit more cautious closer to home. Warren Buffet is listed as a client for Haute Chefs LA and their menu section states, "Always buy organic.. Buy local: Always use the Farmers Market first before using your local markets."[8] David Rockefeller also seems to be a bit more cautious closer to home. For example, if David Rockefeller has the munchies in NYC he can stop into his Rockefeller University, but, interestingly enough, Monsanto's bovine growth hormone won't grace his lips. Why? Because Monsanto's unhealthy GMO milk is banned in Rockefeller's cafeteria. The cafeteria website states, "Only rGBH-free milk, Only cage-free eggs" and, "Organic food options" are available.[9]
  


 
Other than food hypocrisy, what do Bill Gates, David Rockefeller and the Monsanto team have in common? They are all invested in the Svalbard seed vault, the "Doomsday Seed Vault" in the Arctic for the protection of unadulterated, natural seeds.[10] This fact brings the issues of hypocrisy and deception to a whole new level. The plot thickens. The Natural News site recently published the documented historical involvement of the Gates family with eugenics[11] and the Rockefeller's connection with eugenics is well known. Are there signs that food is being used as a softkill eugenics tool?


The 'humanitarian' Gates Foundation purchased 500,000 shares of Monsanto stock in 2010[12] and Gates heavily promotes what has been widely labelled as "The World's Most Evil Company" in 2011.[13] Contrary to the propaganda, GE crops have been shown to have less yields, not more,[14] they require a lot more water, and the production of GE biofuels is exacerbating the world's food crisis. Studies in Russia[15] and Austria[16] have shown that genetically modified foods produce infertility in rodents. Also, a study in France published December 19, 2011 .has shown that Monsanto's Roundup weed killer causes infertility and testicular damage in rodents as well.[17] And keeping this in mind, Gates has publicly committed to an audacious plan of capping the world's population at 8.3 billion people, as noted at a TED conference on March 8 2010.[18]
  So, there are signs that GE food is a handy eugenics tool and it is a powerful control tool as well. Gates' recently defined 'digital revolution against hunger' seems to be nothing more than an attempt to get people 'on the grid' wherein they may be controlled and manipulated. People living in poor undeveloped countries, in secluded rural locations and in jungles, are essentially the last free people on earth. Gates is advocating that the United Nations use a registration system "report card" and "score card" system to "help" the farmers.[19] We are basically seeing the establishment of a totalitarian food policing system with this proposal.

The scriptures have outlined the Beast economic system of food control in black and white in Revelation 13.16-18, and, whether Gates, Monsanto and Rockefeller are aware of it or not, this is what they are apparently helping to bring to pass. In reality, thousands of Indian farmers have already committed suicide due to the alarming debt and indentured servitude resulting from farm contracts with Monsanto.[20] On February 14, 2012, it was reported that GMOs may cause widespread umbilical cord deformities, according to CNN Hero of the Year ‘Mother Robin’.[21] Though helpful for his population reduction statistics, these types of issues aren't brought up in Gates' public speeches, nor are they mentioned by the MSM news conglomerates, which are no doubt grateful recipients of Gates' generous donations.[22]

References 

[1] The Independent, GM food banned in Monsanto canteen , http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/gm-food-banned-in-monsanto-canteen-737948.html
[2] Monsantoblog, What’s Served in Monsanto’s Cafeterias?, http://monsantoblog.com/2012/02/10/whats-served-in-monsantos-cafeterias/
[3] Inquierer Technolgy, Microsoft founder urges digital revolution against hunger, http://technology.inquirer.net/8585/microsoft-founder-urges-digital-revolution-against-hunger
[4] AntiCorruption Society, Planetary Destroyer: Monsanto, http://anticorruptionsociety.com/2012/01/20/planetary-destroyer-monsanto/
[5] Glassdoor, Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation Interview Questions & Reviews, Deputy Director at Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation (Posted Feb 22, 2012) Interviewed Apr 2011 in Seattle, WA (took 3 weeks), http://www.glassdoor.com/Interview/Bill-and-Melinda-Gates-Foundation-Interview-Questions-E9097.htm
[6]The New York Times, A Rockefeller Cafe? Big Plans for Estate, And a Few Murmurs
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/12/22/nyregion/a-rockefeller-cafe-big-plans-for-estate-and-a-few-murmurs.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

[7] Food First, Food First Policy Brief No. 12., http://www.foodfirst.org/files/pdf/policybriefs/pb12.pdf
[8]  Haute Chefs LA, Client and menu pages, http://www.hautechefsla.com/
[9] Rockefeller University, Food Services, http://www.rockefeller.edu/about/sustainability/food/
[10] Global Research, "Doomsday Seed Vault" in the Arctic,  http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=23503
[11] Natural News, Bill Gates, Monsanto, and eugenics: How one of the world's wealthiest men is actively promoting a corporate takeover of global agriculture, http://www.naturalnews.com/035105_Bill_Gates_Monsanto_eugenics.html
[12] Organic Consumers, Global Small Farmers Denounce Gates Foundation Purchase of 500,000 Monsanto Stock Shares, http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_21606.cfm
[13] Mother Earth News, Is Monsanto the World's Most Evil Corporation?, http://www.motherearthnews.com/natural-home-living/is-monsanto-the-worlds-most-evil-corporation.aspx
[14] Common Dreams, Bill Gates: We Need Genetically Modified Seeds
Gates' yield-increasing claims widely refuted by studies, http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2012/02/23-2
[15] Natural Health 365, Genetically Modified Soy Linked to Sterility, Infant Mortality,
http://www.naturalhealth365.com/food/lorem-ipsum-is-simply-dummy-text.html
[16] Mail Online, Why eating GM food could lower your fertility
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1085060/Why-eating-GM-food-lower-fertility.html
[17] Greenmedinfo, "A glyphosate-based herbicide induces necrosis and apoptosis in mature rat testicular cells in vitro, and testosterone decrease at lower levels.", http://www.greenmedinfo.com/article/glyphosate-based-herbicide-induces-necrosis-and-apoptosis-mature-rat-testicular-cells-vitro-
[18] Youtube, Bill Gates wants a Billion Dead! Vaccines and Health Care will do the Job!, Gates' TED presentation, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUJMR3BUm2s
[19] Wtop, Gates to UN: World must help poor farmers more, http://www.wtop.com/?nid=628&sid=2758916
[20] Daily Mail, The GM genocide: Thousands of Indian farmers are committing suicide after using genetically modified crops, http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1082559/The-GM-genocide-Thousands-Indian-farmers-committing-suicide-using-genetically-modified-crops.html
[21] Holy Hormones Journal, GMOs may cause widespread umbilical cord deformities according to CNN Hero of the Year ‘Mother Robin’  http://holyhormones.com/iconic-woman/womens-politics/gmos-may-cause-widespread-umbilical-cord-deformities-according-to-cnn-hero-of-the-year-mother-robin/
[22] Natural News, The Gates Foundation donated $1.5 million to ABC's News Project "Be the change; Save a Life," extolling the virtues of ensuring Africans don't starve. http://www.naturalnews.com/034859_Bill_Gates_mainstream_media_influence.html#ixzz1nh14Inz7

(Article revised March 14, 2012)

Search terms: What does Bill Gates eat? What does David Rockefeller eat? What does Warren Buffet eat? Food as a Eugenic tool, organic elitism, the politics of food, food fascism, planned population reduction, Monsanto bans GM food, Bill Gates bans GE food, Gates GMO, softkill genocide, GE food health problems, world's richest men, Gates - Monsanto GE update, Gates Rockefeller Buffet Monsanto connection, Bill Gates owns Monsanto stocks, Gates bans Monsanto in cafeteria, Bill Gates' hypocrisy, studies in Austria and Russia show GE foods produce sterility, global food police,
Gates and the Svalbard seed vault


Related

Logical Reasons why Moral Relativism is False 

Bill Gates: Dystopian Philanthropy and Neo-eugenics

Brits Angered at Bill Gates' Continued Manifest Destiny 



65 comments:

  1. 1. Please do retract your claims that evolution is neutral towards eugenics and genocide. As it was pointed out numerous times, it hinders the chances of survival of a specie by limiting the number of gene sequences and disrupting the gene balance in humans.

    2. Do read some more on non-theistic morality, at least at the wikipedia level. Your content ignorance is quite painful for my brain cells. Moral relativism itself is quite rare and the only kind that is more or less acknowledged by the majority, would be descriptive relativism.

    I have presented to you my own moral system that is based neither on relativistic principles nor on the principles of some floating "objective morality". You were provided with Maslow s paper that shows that the path to happiness is objective, according to human nature. I have also explained to you that progress is measured by the Human development index, which is also objective even if not perfect.

    3. Do show in the following quote where exactly Dawkins appear as a proponent of eugenics and explain why he considers it unfortunate that the principles of eugenics do work:

    "The reason I am confident about selective breeding for athletic prowess is that the qualities needed are so similar to those that demonstrably work in the breeding of racehorses and carthorses, of greyhounds and sledge dogs. The reason I am still pretty confident about the practical feasibility (though not the moral or political desirability) of selective breeding for mental or otherwise uniquely human traits is that there are so few examples where an attempt at selective breeding in animals has ever failed, even for traits that might have been thought surprising."

    4. Be so kind as to answer my questions. Would it be moral to send a good person to hell, while accepting a repented rapist and mass murderer to heaven? Or is God unable to save the good person at the final trial where he is the Judge, deciding who goes to hell and heaven? In that case and if he loves us all why does he not bother with convincing us of his existence by turning into a talking burning bush and perform miracles before unbelievers?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Part 1

      Anonymous,

      >1. Please do retract your claims that evolution is neutral towards eugenics and genocide.

      - Eugenics relates to a human-guided process of intention. Evolution has no intention. Does your comment mean that you believe evolution is pro-eugenics or opposed to eugenics?

      >Moral relativism itself is quite rare and the only kind that is more or less acknowledged by the majority, would be descriptive relativism.

      - Descriptive relativism is listed as a form of moral relativism in Wiki:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_relativism

      I don't dissagree some relativists are less relative than others, but there is a larger difference between these variations and theist absolute morality who believe an absolute moral standard exists in the person of God.

      > You were provided with Maslow s paper that shows that the path to happiness is objective, according to human nature.

      - If it is truly objective you should be able to briefly summarize how and why it is considered objective in your own words. I asked for a specific 'anchor' and I pointed out that happiness and pleasure are subjective and cannot provide a specific, objective univeresal moral anchor. If your article has one, let's hear about it.

      >I have also explained to you that progress is measured by the Human development index, which is also objective even if not perfect.

      - The human development index relates mainly to 'standards of living' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index

      - Standards of living are relative to each other depending on subjective evaluations. I lived for 2 weeks in an impoverished vilaage in Uganda with no running water and no electricity but the missionary families I met they helped provide a sense of God's love that permeated the community.

      In my opinion that community has a higher standard of living than perhaps the elaborate homes of Bill Gates or Michael Taylor because I don't get they impression these people are filled with God's love and they have a sense of coldness towards the human race.

      The questions of good and evil, right and wrong run much deeper than the circumstances and infrastructures in which we find ourselves.

      Delete
    2. Bill gates mother died of uncurable cancer and soon Bill Gates will definately meet his own death which will also be a horrific cancer or uncurable disease sent by GOD, the only master of the world. When Bill gates is officially dead, he will then be sent directly to hell to burn in the flames for eternity and the people of the world will be saved while bill gates is burning forever! THANK YOU GOD !!!!! AMEN!

      Delete
    3. >Bill Gates will definately meet his own death which will also be a horrific cancer or uncurable disease sent by GOD...

      That's really old news that Gates' mother died of cancer. there does not seem to be any truth to your claim that Bill will die of cancer. It may be that Bill Gates is secretly eating the GMO foods he is promoting around the world and this will cause death by cancer. But it is highly doubtful that he is ideating what he is promoting.

      http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/sep/28/study-gm-maize-cancer

      God does not delight in the death of the wicked:

      "Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign LORD. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?"

      Ezekiel 18.23

      And neither do I.

      There seems to be some faulty logic at work: "Rick exposes and opposes deceitful, corrupt workers, therefore he would delight in their death."

      The conclusion does not follow from the premise. Try God and try logic. It's an unbeatable combination, joined from eternity. (John 1.1)

      Delete
    4. Rick: Try God and try logic.
      Since "God" seems to be logically incoherent, you might want to rephrase this to "Try God or try logic"
      Here's a link to a Refutation of the existence of God which argues the incoherence of the God of classical theism.

      Rick: It's an unbeatable combination, joined from eternity.
      Eternity, when applied to God is usually taken to be timelessness. Therefore stating that God and logic have been "joined from Eternity" doesn't make sense. It's applying a tensed phrase to something that is tenseless.

      Rick: (John 1.1)
      This passage doesn't seem to have any bearing on your claim.
      Not only that, but it is one of the passages which, when read in the original Greek, implies strongly that the "logos" is not God (undermining trinitarianism) - it states that the logos is divine (a god), but not The God.

      Delete
  2. Part 2.

    >3. Do show in the following quote where exactly Dawkins appear as a proponent of eugenics...

    - I never wrote Dawkins was a "proponent" of Eugenics. This is what I wrote:

    "Any brief review of the subject of human selective breeding, also known as Eugenics, would reveal that the subject is tainted with scientific racism, civil rights abuses and horrific genocide. Richard Dawkins, as a professional "evolutionary biologist", should be aware of this history and context. As Dawkins weighs in on this subject there appears to be no condemnation of scientific racism, civil rights abuses or genocide. On the contrary, Dawkins' comments imply a favorable attitude towards the subject, albeit cautiously favorable.

    If I wrote, "I am against selective human breeding, though I'm not confident of it's moral desirability", the statement would not make sense. However, if I wrote, "I am in favor of human selective breeding, though I'm not confident of it's moral desirability" This statement makes sense. The statement "though I'm not confident of it's moral desirability" is simply a clarification of a positive opinion.

    Let me ask you a simple question:

    Do you recognize that some of the following descriptions reveal positive beliefs and others portray negative ones?

    confident in
    not confident
    somewhat sure
    not sure
    neutral
    hesitant
    doubtful
    don't believe
    can't believe
    certainly doubt


    >Would it be moral to send a good person to hell, while accepting a repented rapist and mass murderer to heaven?

    - I also addressed this question in the comments in the previous article (Feb 24, 2012 08:59 PM) but I will elaborate. Compared to God, there is no one really "good" because we all have had sinful thoughts and performed sinful deeds. But in order for us to enjoy God's salvation and fellowship we need to acknowledge we have sinned and do need forgiveness and redemption. People who consider themselves good relative to other people often do not understand this or believe it is somehow unfair. But it is simply how God's grace is extended equally to different kinds of individuals.

    If two people made a bet to see who could swim across the Atlantic Ocean from England to America, would it matter if one swam 1 kilometer more than the other? In the face of the Atlantic Ocean, a few kilometers are minimal. But people are often so filled with pride by their self righteousness as they compare themselves with the worst cases in humanity.

    The rapist who repents and receives Christ has more understanding and revelation than a 'do gooder' who is self-righteous and too proud to repent of his or her many sins and receive Christ.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Rick: The rapist who repents and receives Christ has more understanding and revelation than a 'do gooder' who is self-righteous and too proud to repent of his or her many sins and receive Christ.
      It's good to see you're now admitting that Christian theology has no place for justice.

      How about the person who does good because it's the right thing to do, and yet doesn't believe in your fairytale deity?

      The examples you idiots use are almost without exception, worthy of laughter.

      Delete
  3. R:Eugenics relates to a human-guided process of intention. Evolution has no intention. Does your comment mean that you believe evolution is pro-eugenics or opposed to eugenics?

    You claimed that evolution could justify racism and genocide. However, it does not. If you agree with this then change the misleading title of your previous article.

    And yes, evolution is neutral towards morality. However, evolution is also about survival of a specie. If something hinders survival it would be considered "bad" and that is precisely what eugenics and genocide do.

    R:f it is truly objective you should be able to briefly summarize how and why it is considered objective in your own words.

    So you are too lazy to read it yourself? But you still have the audacity to claim that every non-theistic morality is a relativist one. Not a very honest position in my opinion.

    In short, Maslow s theory of needs is based on human nature. A person who s need are fulfilled is happy. Those needs are: physiological needs, safety needs, love needs, esteem needs, self-actualization needs. Their priority may differ for individuals, but basically it all boils down to them.

    R:In my opinion that community has a higher standard of living than perhaps the elaborate homes of Bill Gates or Michael Taylor because I don't get they impression these people are filled with God's love and they have a sense of coldness towards the human race.

    A moral system does not need a God. Furthermore, you will have difficulties denying that impoverished countries have a higher level of violence and stress which is not something generally considered "good". Also the more miserable a country is the more religious it is, according to statistics. It is much easier to be good and moral if you do not fear dying from hunger.

    R:On the contrary, Dawkins' comments imply a favorable attitude towards the subject, albeit cautiously favorable.

    I do not see anything like that. He only stated that it was physically possible and that is all. He never wrote about being in favor or against eugenics in that quote you are nitpicking. He never implied smth like "I am in favor of human selective breeding, though I'm not confident of it's moral desirability". He said an equivalent of smth: "I could jump from the roof of a skyscraper, though I am not confident it is morally/politically/physiologically desirable".

    R:I also addressed this question in the comments in the previous article (Feb 24, 2012 08:59 PM) but I will elaborate.

    Listen, Rick. I could not care any less about that fictional being. I am interested in your own attitude. I will ask again. Will you personally be ok sending off someone you love to hell while you go to heaven? And would you still consider yourself moral after that?

    R:Compared to God, there is no one really "good" because we all have had sinful thoughts and performed sinful deeds.

    And you personally agree with God that there are no good people out there? Do you really think that your own children are despicable sinners that deserve eternal damnation for the sole fact that their ancestor did smth presumably "bad" several dozens of centuries ago?

    And what can you say to a Christian who killed her own children to avoid them getting tainted by sin and guaranteed them a ticket to heaven at the price of her own soul apart from the fact it displeased God?

    ReplyDelete
  4. Anonymous,

    >You claimed that evolution could justify racism and genocide.

    - No, I did not. Take some time and read the title carefully. It specifically states "Richard Dawkins' evolution and in the article this is fully spelled out:

    "I do not offer that the theory of evolution in and of itself justifies anything. However, when this theory is combined with moral relativism, and the kind of anti-religious atheism that Richard Dawkins embraces, then not only may racism be rationalized, but racist genocide may be rationalized as well. The purpose of this article is not to imply that Richard Dawkins is personally a racist who believes in racial genocide, but, rather, to outline how anti-religious atheism and the theory of evolution may be used together to rationalize and justify these types of opinions and acts."

    >In short, Maslow s theory of needs is based on human nature. A person who s need are fulfilled is happy. Those needs are: physiological needs, safety needs, love needs,

    - This view is based on materialist presuppositionalism, which is philosophically weak.
    From 5 different materialist atheists I will have 5 different definitions of truth. Christianity has a fairly narrow definition of truth and, as shown by WL Craig, the strongest materialists cannot seem to stand up against it in debate in any form.

    >A moral system does not need a God.

    - I'm still waiting to see you objective, universal standard of morality.

    >R:On the contrary, Dawkins' comments imply a favorable attitude towards the subject, albeit cautiously favorable.

    >I do not see anything like that.

    - You and Havok have a struggle with the syntax and meaning of the English language. You are excused because you are Russian.

    >And you personally agree with God that there are no good people out there?

    - Compared to God, yes.

    >And what can you say to a Christian who killed her own children

    - Who has done or advocated this? Where in the Bible is this offered? Murder isn't advocated. You are advocating Marxist 'end justifies means' relativism, not the moral absolutism of scripture. This is understandable since you hail from Russia.

    ReplyDelete
  5. R:No, I did not. Take some time and read the title carefully. It specifically states "Richard Dawkins' evolution and in the article this is fully spelled out

    Sorry, that still does not hold. Genocide and eugenics go against the principles of evolution. So no matter what you add to the equation, that does not change the outcome. You cannot logically rationalize those things and use evolution at the same time.

    R:This view is based on materialist presuppositionalism, which is philosophically weak.

    I do not care what it is based on as long as it works and it is true. Are you able to refute that system or not? Since it is "weak" you should not have any trouble here.

    R:Christianity has a fairly narrow definition of truth and, as shown by WL Craig, the strongest materialists cannot seem to stand up against it in debate in any form.

    That is a red herring that has nothing to do with the presented moral system. Furthermore, I do not need to remind you of the several hundreds of Christian sects. You are in no position to criticize anyone for their views not being universally accepted as the sole truth.

    R:I'm still waiting to see you objective, universal standard of morality.

    I have told you several times that my objective basis for morality is happiness and progress. I have explained what I meant by happiness (fulfillment of human objective needs) and what I meant with progress (human development index). Do tell what is subjective about them.

    R:You and Havok have a struggle with the syntax and meaning of the English language. You are excused because you are Russian.

    Did you not do the same mistake with cosmology, when you claimed that the only kind of beginning Vielienkin considered was a biblical one? Do you truly consider your English so impeccable even if you did make mistakes like that not so long ago? Would you become an atheist if I do prove you wrong by writing to Dawkins personally?

    A:And you personally agree with God that there are no good people out there?
    R:Compared to God, yes.

    And that gives God the right to do as he is pleased with every human being? Then why are you so outraged with the holocaust. The Jews were no better than the Nazi, according to you. Or the sole reason you are against mass murder would be that only God is allowed to perform it?

    R:Who has done or advocated this? Where in the Bible is this offered? Murder isn't advocated. You are advocating Marxist 'end justifies means' relativism, not the moral absolutism of scripture. This is understandable since you hail from Russia.

    Some woman did this in America. She killed her own children to avoid them getting tainted by sin. She justified her action by love. She would sacrifice her own soul for eternal damnation in exchange for the a ticket to heaven for her children. That is her logic not mine.

    And please answer my question you ignored. Will you personally be ok sending off someone you love to hell while you go to heaven? And would you still consider yourself moral after that?

    ReplyDelete
  6. Yates who killed her children to "save" them. And there is a dozen of similar cases around. You can claim that she is a nutjob, but how do you logically refute her actions as a Christian?

    http://articles.cnn.com/2006-06-26/justice/yates.trial_1_andrea-yates-murder-retrial-george-parnham?_s=PM:LAW

    ReplyDelete
  7. Rick, you have talked yourself into an interesting dilemma. On one hand, if all human beings are despicable, so it does not matter if the Canaanites were "good" or "bad", they deserved to be butchered anyway. On the other hand, if good non-christian people do exist, then they do not deserve to end up in hell, a place far worse than a concentration camp.

    ReplyDelete
  8. It would be tremendously courteous of you, Rick, to actually answer my questions.

    ReplyDelete
  9. Anonymous,

    It would be courteous for people who visit the blog if you could post comments that relate to the blog post at hand, and not various previous posts. Unfortunately, this seems to be your tendency.

    As a reminder, I've added a small note to the comments posting section:

    Please try to keep your comments related to the blog post topic at hand.

    ReplyDelete
  10. So would you stop ignoring my questions? Then there would be no problem. Should I copy paste them to another thread?

    ReplyDelete
  11. Anonymous, As I wrote, you should post comments where they are applicable. If your comments seem reasonable I will try to respond to them appropriately.

    I've noticed, however, that some of your comments do not actually present new points but just basically repeat your personal opinion. You write basically, 'No you're wrong...evolution plus anti-religious atheism cannot be used to justify anything, happiness is not subjective, etc...' I cannot promise I will address these types of comments because you are not presenting anything new.

    I've already explained my position on these points and you have not presented anything new to challenged my position. However, if you present something new at the appropriate blog post location then it would be worth addressing.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Most of my questions are still hanging on the other thread. If you want to ignore them since you believe that you have already covered them - suit yourself. Though, you failed to convey any kind of relevant information with your "answers" and you still refuse to elaborate them. That would make you a crappy missionary, I believe.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You shouldn't feel too bad Anonymous - Rick is into equal opportunity ignorance.
      He's not singling you out specifically, but rather your questions, which he cannot or will not answer.

      In fact I would think that almost every single post Rick has made (at least since I stumbled across his little puddle of delusions) has numerous outstanding questions that he is yet to or has failed to answer :-)

      Delete
    2. But of course you already knew that ;-)

      Delete
    3. Havok,

      "He's not singling you out specifically, but rather your questions, which he cannot or will not answer."

      - When all else fails, try lies and slander, eh, Havok?

      How many times to I have to document your lies before you will apologize?

      I haven't seen you here at this blog since your latest slanderous rant. Funny, I didn't notice any apology.

      Let's review your last comments from this article:

      How Richard Dawkins' Evolution Justifies Racism and Genocide

      http://templestream.blogspot.com/2012/02/dawkins-evolution-justifies-racism-and.html#comment-form


      You call me a liar for showing that Dawkins is not opposed to eugenics:

      Why do you need to lie Rick? (Feb 22, 2012 08:34 PM)

      But keep lying for Jesus Rick! :-) (Mar 1, 2012 01:43 PM)

      I soundly refute the point you offered and ask for an apology for calling me a liar:

      I wrote, "Havok, any time you would like to apologize for calling me a "liar for Jesus" you are welcome to." (Mar 2, 2012 09:49 PM)

      But, the reality seems to be that don't believe slander is wrong and/or you simply don't want to address your problem with lying. Which is it Havok.

      Delete
    4. That's it Rick. Keep advertising your own lies.

      Funny how you are resorting to this instead of even attempting to address critiques of your claims.

      I guess false accusations are easier than actual justification, hey? :-P

      Delete
    5. Havok,

      So, you refuse to apologize for lying and slandering me, as documented, not able to provide one single example to back up your points, and you continue to call me a liar?

      This is nothing but spam at this point.

      Delete
    6. I responded to your latest attempt to salvage your lie about Dawkins and Eugenics.

      I will continue to call you a liar because you have been caught in a lie. This has been explained to you. Had you backed away from it straight away, we could have put it down to a misunderstanding, but you've dug in your heels and refuse to budge.

      And so a liar you are and a liar you remain.

      Delete
  13. Oh my children. There is no God because god told me this. But there is truth and faith and all other things that humans and everything that exists are capable of. Religion is just a set of beliefs like any set of beliefs-not true but not untrue either. The truth is right in front of al our eyes-we all have the power to see and to be whatever we want to see and be and that is our power of truth and logic and good and bad. There is no ultimate truth just as there is no ultimate answer,it's up to each of us to decide for ourselves. To believe otherwise whether you are religious or not is superstition because whether god,nature,aliens or any or everything else created you and everything else it is REALITY of everything that created the truth of everything.And beliefs no matter how true are not reality-only you and everything else is reality,not whatever superstitions (true or untrue) that you use to keep yourself calm,happy,angry,awake,alive,and justified in your own existence and actions. Reality is never what you think but what you don't think. And then it becomes what you do think. Until you don't think. Until you do. See that isn't the reality it's what is in between what we beleive and know where the truth lies in our instinct and our true knowledge of ourselves that is hidden from us and that we hide from in order to live in this world. Only by not caring about this world can we save it. It is in fact our desire to care which causes us to destroy what we care about as we destroy what is natural in us and without us. We care about our desires so we take from everything. We care about everything so we take from ourselves our own understanding and try to replace it with the understanding of other things. To live and to exist as a real living human creature is enough of a challenge for us so we should discard with all other challenges of this world,which we did not create and will not save by generosity or deceit. And since we are part of this world we will also not save ourselves by generosity or deceit but only by truth and instinct otherwise known as feelings that are not felt but thought,known,and experienced-the things that we create societies and realities and knowledge to avoid.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. >Oh my children. There is no God because god told me this.

      - Incredible. Need we read more?

      Delete
    2. Uh, don't you think that maybe he's being uh...sarcastic?

      Delete
  14. Bill gates mother died of uncurable cancer and soon Bill Gates will definately meet his own death which will also be a horrific cancer or uncurable disease sent by GOD, the only master of the world. When Bill gates is officially dead, he will then be sent directly to hell to burn in the flames for eternity and the people of the world will be saved while bill gates is burning forever! THANK YOU GOD !!!!! AMEN!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Seeing you delight in someone's painful death, and thanking a divinity for it, makes me glad I do not worship the same divinity, or else I might end up like you.

      Delete
    2. At least I hope that he's being sarcastic.

      Delete
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