Scientists around the world claim that trees are dying at an unprecedented rate for a host of reasons. What does this mean in terms of biblical prophecy? If you are a student of scripture, then you are likely familiar with this verse and its context:
"For if people do these things when the tree is green, what will happen when it is dry?" (Luke 23.21 NIV)
This verse is especially interesting when you consider that the AAAS journal Science and other scientists are claiming that large, old trees around the world are dying at unprecedented rates. I had recently written an article on this subject:
There are different interpretation of what Jesus' metaphor means. He could have been offering a contrast between the times he was living in and the times that would come upon the earth, as noted:
The Crucifixion of Jesus
"As the soldiers led him away, they seized Simon from Cyrene, who was on his way in from the country, and put the cross on him and made him carry it behind Jesus. A large number of people followed him, including women who mourned and wailed for him. Jesus turned and said to them, “Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for me; weep for yourselves and for your children. For the time will come when you will say, ‘Blessed are the childless women, the wombs that never bore and the breasts that never nursed!’ Then ‘they will say to the mountains, “Fall on us!” and to the hills, “Cover us!”
For if people do these things when the tree is green, what will happen when it is dry?” (Luke 23.26-31 NIV)
Some claim that Jesus was contrasting his sufferings as a perfect Savior (a green tree) with suffering by guilty sinners (dry trees). I tend to view it with a more literal interpretation, as paraphrased: 'If people are cruel enough to brutally crucify an innocent man when nature is basically in a sound condition, how cruel will people become when the earth is dry due to climactic changes and living conditions become much more difficult?' Grammatically this seems to be a more correct interpretation. The act is done "in a" green tree not "to a" green tree.
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. " (Matthew 5.43 NIV)
In every new adversity there is a new opportunity.
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Proof texting and taking passages out of context Rick.
ReplyDeleteThe more things change, the more they stay the same :-)
It seems rather more likely that a green tree is a good man, and a bad man is dry. See Ezekiel 17:24 for similar symbolism.
ReplyDeleteAlso, your preferred phrasing takes the green tree to be symbolic and the dry trees to be literal, but it seems rather obvious that the symbolism is the same across the statement (which leads to the more standard understanding of a tree being a man, which was apparently common symbolism to the Jews).
Hi Rian,
Delete>It seems rather more likely that a green tree is a good man, and a bad man is dry.
- You still have not addressed the grammatical issue of why the scripture states "in a" green tree as opposed to a more accurate description supporting your view, "to a" green tree.
And we may both be right in some respects. There may be a comparison of 'then and now,' (as I've proposed) as well as the figurative use of trees (as you and others propose) and we both may still have common ground.
The scriptures outline a progressive inhumane coldness that will continue to take hold. The love of many will grow cold in the last days because sin will abound: "Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold..." Matthew 24.12
We believe the Roman empire was cruel, bet we have yet to see what is coming when all moral standards are obliterated in the name of political correctness and when intense hunger causes materialistic people to see other humans as nothing but competitive, useless eaters.
You still have not addressed the grammatical issue of why the scripture states "in a" green tree as opposed to a more accurate description supporting your view, "to a" green tree.
DeleteThe verse doesn't say "to a green tree" or "in a green tree". The passage reads "en hygros xylon" - it is written in ancient Greek, after all.
You haven't addressed the fact that your preferred interpretation involves taking "xylon" both figuratively and literally, with no reason given for the change.
The scriptures outline a progressive inhumane coldness that will continue to take hold.
Goody for the scriptures. When we look at reality, we see that things are getting better, people are less cruel, etc.
We believe the Roman empire was cruel, bet we have yet to see what is coming when all moral standards are obliterated in the name of political correctness and when intense hunger causes materialistic people to see other humans as nothing but competitive, useless eaters.
There are a lot of assertions in that paragraph Rick, with little in the way of back up for them.
For instance, you state that all moral standards will be obliterated in the name of political correctness, but political correctness is an attempt at imposing moral standards - your statement in incoherent.
You'll also need to show that the worlds food supply will abruptly break down, something which shows no signs of actually happening.
>it is written in ancient Greek, after all.
Delete- And when translated into English, the majority of English translations offer the importance of time, either "in a" green tree or "when" the tree is green:
http://biblehub.com/luke/23-31.htm
>Goody for the scriptures. When we look at reality, we see that things are getting better, people are less cruel, etc.
- Not sure what virtual world you are living in. The eugenics movement is alive and well with deep ecology leaders calling for a massive genocide in order to save the earth and to "maintain humanity under 500,000,000 in perpetual balance with nature."
http://templestream.blogspot.com/2009/05/new-world-ardor.html
This kind of human reduction is seen as a cold and calculated 'directed' human evolution:
- "Eugenics is the self-direction of human evolution," - logo of SIE Conference 1921
- “Human beings, as a species, have no more value than slugs” - John Davis, editor of Earth First! Journal
- “Human suffering is much less important than the suffering of the planet,” - David Brower, former head of the Sierra Club and founder of Friends of the Earth (quote link)
- “Just as the human body uses a fever to fight off an infection, Gaia is raising her temperature to expel a harmful parasite – humans.” The Revenge of Gaia, by James Lovelock, father of The Gaia Theory
http://templestream.blogspot.com/2009/01/urgent-abortion-news.html
Do really think that Gates and Rockefeller are stupid enough not to know that the GMO foods they promote worldwide don't cause harm and sterility? Hmmmmmm. That must be why they both ban GMO foods in their own cafeterias:
http://templestream.blogspot.com/2012/02/gates-and-rockefeller-cafeterias-reject.html
And when translated into English, the majority of English translations offer the importance of time, either "in a" green tree or "when" the tree is green:
ReplyDelete"In a" and "when" don't denote time, but can rather denote simple comparison.
You still haven't indicated why the change from symbolism (with the good man, or Jesus as the green tree/wood) changes to a literal reading for dry wood. Your reading makes no sense.
Not sure what virtual world you are living in.
The real world, where statistics show improvements.
The eugenics movement is alive and well with deep ecology leaders calling for a massive genocide in order to save the earth and to "maintain humanity under 500,000,000 in perpetual balance with nature."
And how much influence do these "deep ecology" leaders have?
Are they calling for genocide, or simply for a stop to uncontrolled breeding of humans?
Do really think that Gates and Rockefeller are stupid enough not to know that the GMO foods they promote worldwide don't cause harm and sterility?
You'd need to provide legitimate evidence that GMO foods cause harm and sterility, and since we've been practicing genetic modification of an indirect sort for tens of thousands of years, simply being able to practice genetic modification directly doesn't mean that harm is a necessary by product.
Try to limit the tangents you go off on.
I also notice that you're willing to accept the translations when you think they support you, but you appear to be completely rejecting the commentaries which do not.
DeleteWhy pick and choose what you accept in that fashion Rick?
It smacks of confirmation bias on your part.
Rick's an epikoros in most every field he gets involved in, I'm afraid.
Delete